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	<title>Comments on: The Smoot-Krugman carbon import tariff</title>
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	<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/</link>
	<description>Your guide to American economic policy</description>
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		<title>By: Mikel</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-1555</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-1555</guid>
		<description>I doubt that few among you would make a significant investment based on the weather forecast but here we are seriously discussing making major changes to the US economy based on predictions from computer models that are less proven than those used for weather forecasting.  Madness...&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;1555&#039;,&#039;Mikel&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;1555&#039;,&#039;Mikel&#039;,&#039;I doubt that few among you would make a significant investment based on the weather forecast but here we are seriously discussing making major changes to the US economy based on predictions from computer models that are less proven than those used for weather forecasting.  Madness...&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I doubt that few among you would make a significant investment based on the weather forecast but here we are seriously discussing making major changes to the US economy based on predictions from computer models that are less proven than those used for weather forecasting.  Madness&#8230;
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('1555','Mikel'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('1555','Mikel','I doubt that few among you would make a significant investment based on the weather forecast but here we are seriously discussing making major changes to the US economy based on predictions from computer models that are less proven than those used for weather forecasting.  Madness...'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-731</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Jun 2009 17:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Global Warming is not a real problem. Environmentalism is best understood as a new religious movement for modern secular rich people. Human beings are inherently superstitious and drawn to apocalyptic belief systems. The &quot;fate of the planet&quot; is not at stake. There is zero risk that global warming will make the planet unlivable.

The Global Warming apocalypse is a fantasy and the left wing equivalent of the Rapture -- and just as nonsensical. Sadly, the Left will impoverish the rest of us while they tilt at the climate change windmills. The eco-left tend to be rich, though, so they don&#039;t care if their policies crush the middle class.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;731&#039;,&#039;jim&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;731&#039;,&#039;jim&#039;,&#039;Global Warming is not a real problem. Environmentalism is best understood as a new religious movement for modern secular rich people. Human beings are inherently superstitious and drawn to apocalyptic belief systems. The \&quot;fate of the planet\&quot; is not at stake. There is zero risk that global warming will make the planet unlivable.\n\nThe Global Warming apocalypse is a fantasy and the left wing equivalent of the Rapture -- and just as nonsensical. Sadly, the Left will impoverish the rest of us while they tilt at the climate change windmills. The eco-left tend to be rich, though, so they don\&#039;t care if their policies crush the middle class.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Global Warming is not a real problem. Environmentalism is best understood as a new religious movement for modern secular rich people. Human beings are inherently superstitious and drawn to apocalyptic belief systems. The &#8220;fate of the planet&#8221; is not at stake. There is zero risk that global warming will make the planet unlivable.</p>
<p>The Global Warming apocalypse is a fantasy and the left wing equivalent of the Rapture &#8212; and just as nonsensical. Sadly, the Left will impoverish the rest of us while they tilt at the climate change windmills. The eco-left tend to be rich, though, so they don&#8217;t care if their policies crush the middle class.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('731','jim'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('731','jim','Global Warming is not a real problem. Environmentalism is best understood as a new religious movement for modern secular rich people. Human beings are inherently superstitious and drawn to apocalyptic belief systems. The \&quot;fate of the planet\&quot; is not at stake. There is zero risk that global warming will make the planet unlivable.\n\nThe Global Warming apocalypse is a fantasy and the left wing equivalent of the Rapture -- and just as nonsensical. Sadly, the Left will impoverish the rest of us while they tilt at the climate change windmills. The eco-left tend to be rich, though, so they don\'t care if their policies crush the middle class.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Brant</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-730</link>
		<dc:creator>Brant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-730</guid>
		<description>How to deal with a reluctant China, the world&#039;s greatest CO2 producer, is a difficult problem because our focus is on government regulation of CO2 production.  That drives the concept of using tariffs to impose economic damage if China itself fails to impose that damage through cap and trade or other carbon reduction programs.

A solution is to shift the focus from regulation of production to regulation of consumption.  If each item consumed had a known carbon price that had to be paid to consume that item, then the source of the item (China, USA, etc.) would no longer be important.  I recommend that the US do its part in the global effort to save the world by awarding carbon consumption permits to its people.  To purchase an item, a person would have to pay (have deducted from his/her carbon allowance) for its carbon contribution.  There would be no tariff involved and goods from all sources could be treated equally.  Carbon consumption permits could be traded between people.

We would need to change our payment infrastructure to implement my plan.  The Japanese use their cell phones as credit cards.  Point-of-sale payments are made via the phone, just like we now pay for most items by credit card.  A system to debit a person&#039;s carbon consumption permit account concurrent with debiting their bank account is entirely feasible.

While I am not convinced that there is a real man-made global warming crisis, if we are to take steps to limit carbon emissions, they should be sensible steps.  Limiting consumption is the most direct approach we can take.  And it would have the great advantage of allowing the people to understand the constraints being placed on them by carbon emission limitations.&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;730&#039;,&#039;Brant&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;730&#039;,&#039;Brant&#039;,&#039;How to deal with a reluctant China, the world\&#039;s greatest CO2 producer, is a difficult problem because our focus is on government regulation of CO2 production.  That drives the concept of using tariffs to impose economic damage if China itself fails to impose that damage through cap and trade or other carbon reduction programs.\n\nA solution is to shift the focus from regulation of production to regulation of consumption.  If each item consumed had a known carbon price that had to be paid to consume that item, then the source of the item (China, USA, etc.) would no longer be important.  I recommend that the US do its part in the global effort to save the world by awarding carbon consumption permits to its people.  To purchase an item, a person would have to pay (have deducted from his\/her carbon allowance) for its carbon contribution.  There would be no tariff involved and goods from all sources could be treated equally.  Carbon consumption permits could be traded between people.\n\nWe would need to change our payment infrastructure to implement my plan.  The Japanese use their cell phones as credit cards.  Point-of-sale payments are made via the phone, just like we now pay for most items by credit card.  A system to debit a person\&#039;s carbon consumption permit account concurrent with debiting their bank account is entirely feasible.\n\nWhile I am not convinced that there is a real man-made global warming crisis, if we are to take steps to limit carbon emissions, they should be sensible steps.  Limiting consumption is the most direct approach we can take.  And it would have the great advantage of allowing the people to understand the constraints being placed on them by carbon emission limitations.&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How to deal with a reluctant China, the world&#8217;s greatest CO2 producer, is a difficult problem because our focus is on government regulation of CO2 production.  That drives the concept of using tariffs to impose economic damage if China itself fails to impose that damage through cap and trade or other carbon reduction programs.</p>
<p>A solution is to shift the focus from regulation of production to regulation of consumption.  If each item consumed had a known carbon price that had to be paid to consume that item, then the source of the item (China, USA, etc.) would no longer be important.  I recommend that the US do its part in the global effort to save the world by awarding carbon consumption permits to its people.  To purchase an item, a person would have to pay (have deducted from his/her carbon allowance) for its carbon contribution.  There would be no tariff involved and goods from all sources could be treated equally.  Carbon consumption permits could be traded between people.</p>
<p>We would need to change our payment infrastructure to implement my plan.  The Japanese use their cell phones as credit cards.  Point-of-sale payments are made via the phone, just like we now pay for most items by credit card.  A system to debit a person&#8217;s carbon consumption permit account concurrent with debiting their bank account is entirely feasible.</p>
<p>While I am not convinced that there is a real man-made global warming crisis, if we are to take steps to limit carbon emissions, they should be sensible steps.  Limiting consumption is the most direct approach we can take.  And it would have the great advantage of allowing the people to understand the constraints being placed on them by carbon emission limitations.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('730','Brant'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('730','Brant','How to deal with a reluctant China, the world\'s greatest CO2 producer, is a difficult problem because our focus is on government regulation of CO2 production.  That drives the concept of using tariffs to impose economic damage if China itself fails to impose that damage through cap and trade or other carbon reduction programs.\n\nA solution is to shift the focus from regulation of production to regulation of consumption.  If each item consumed had a known carbon price that had to be paid to consume that item, then the source of the item (China, USA, etc.) would no longer be important.  I recommend that the US do its part in the global effort to save the world by awarding carbon consumption permits to its people.  To purchase an item, a person would have to pay (have deducted from his\/her carbon allowance) for its carbon contribution.  There would be no tariff involved and goods from all sources could be treated equally.  Carbon consumption permits could be traded between people.\n\nWe would need to change our payment infrastructure to implement my plan.  The Japanese use their cell phones as credit cards.  Point-of-sale payments are made via the phone, just like we now pay for most items by credit card.  A system to debit a person\'s carbon consumption permit account concurrent with debiting their bank account is entirely feasible.\n\nWhile I am not convinced that there is a real man-made global warming crisis, if we are to take steps to limit carbon emissions, they should be sensible steps.  Limiting consumption is the most direct approach we can take.  And it would have the great advantage of allowing the people to understand the constraints being placed on them by carbon emission limitations.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-4/#comment-729</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 06:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-729</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It all comes down to increasing political power in the hands of the State. Paul Krugman and his ilk would be in favor of almost any program, tax, or whatever that increased their political power over people’s lives.</p></blockquote>
<p>Trying to attack a position by questioning people&#8217;s motives without proof is the sign of a piss-poor argument. For this example, I could turn around and say that all conservative opposition to global warming compensation is rooted in a short-term, &#8220;I&#8217;ve got mine and screw everyone else!&#8221; mentality, but I&#8217;d be just as wrong as you are right now.</p>
<blockquote><p>People on the Left see the benefits of imposing control over energy not in terms of trying to reduce global temperatures by 2/10 of a degree, but in the benefit of power. No cost is too large for the benefit of control.</p></blockquote>
<p>Don&#8217;t presume to know my motives. For that matter, most people on the &#8220;Left&#8221; have proposed mechanisms that use market incentives, like a carbon tax, to reduce emissions.</p>
<blockquote><p>Just ask yourself this on any man-made global warming proposal that comes out, does it increase or decrease the citizen’s freedom?</p></blockquote>
<p>What do you define as &#8220;freedom&#8221;? Do you judge a proposal for more police funding and officers in terms of how much &#8220;freedom&#8221; it will give you to abuse the law and/or your fellow citizens?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('729','Brett'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('729','Brett','&lt;blockquote&gt;It all comes down to increasing political power in the hands of the State. Paul Krugman and his ilk would be in favor of almost any program, tax, or whatever that increased their political power over people&acirc;s lives.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\n\nTrying to attack a position by questioning people\'s motives without proof is the sign of a piss-poor argument. For this example, I could turn around and say that all conservative opposition to global warming compensation is rooted in a short-term, \&quot;I\'ve got mine and screw everyone else!\&quot; mentality, but I\'d be just as wrong as you are right now.\n\n&lt;blockquote&gt;People on the Left see the benefits of imposing control over energy not in terms of trying to reduce global temperatures by 2\/10 of a degree, but in the benefit of power. No cost is too large for the benefit of control.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\n\nDon\'t presume to know my motives. For that matter, most people on the \&quot;Left\&quot; have proposed mechanisms that use market incentives, like a carbon tax, to reduce emissions.\n\n&lt;blockquote&gt;Just ask yourself this on any man-made global warming proposal that comes out, does it increase or decrease the citizen&acirc;s freedom?&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\n\nWhat do you define as \&quot;freedom\&quot;? Do you judge a proposal for more police funding and officers in terms of how much \&quot;freedom\&quot; it will give you to abuse the law and\/or your fellow citizens?'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-728</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jun 2009 06:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-728</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In public policy discussions, R&amp;D spending tends to be treated as a kind of panacea. Invoke the magic letters and all heads nod sagely, “More R&amp;D, yes more R&amp;D. That’s the ticket.” This response does not recognize that (1) you can’t predict what new insights will arise from Research and (2) you can only Develop a new insight if it arises from that research. Net yields from R&amp;D spending, especially in the direction of a particular desired result, are often negative.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m distinctly at unease with Henessey&#8217;s position on the issue. It basically amounts to hoping that the White Knight of Technology will save us from any serious costs on the climate issue by throwing some amount of money at the problem, as if technological effectiveness responds in some type of direct linear relationship to the amount of R &amp; D spending.</p>
<p>I mean, take a look at what happened in the US auto sector in terms of oil consumption after the passage of CAFE laws in the 1970s. The overall efficiency of cars rose drastically, yet oil consumption still shot up, simply because people &#8220;ate the gains&#8221;, so to speak.</p>
<p>In any case, don&#8217;t under-estimate even 1-2 degrees of warming in the overall global temperature. For one thing, that can translate into radically different temperature changes on the local level (since the poles are warming faster than most other areas, for example), and we just don&#8217;t know enough about the climate and environmental impact that 1-2 degrees will bring (for example, the total difference in mean temperature between London now and London in the last Ice Age, when it was as cold as northern Alaska, amounts to about 5-6 degree Celsius change).
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('728','Brett'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('728','Brett','&lt;blockquote&gt;In public policy discussions, R&amp;amp;D spending tends to be treated as a kind of panacea. Invoke the magic letters and all heads nod sagely, &acirc;More R&amp;amp;D, yes more R&amp;amp;D. That&acirc;s the ticket.&acirc; This response does not recognize that (1) you can&acirc;t predict what new insights will arise from Research and (2) you can only Develop a new insight if it arises from that research. Net yields from R&amp;amp;D spending, especially in the direction of a particular desired result, are often negative.&lt;\/blockquote&gt;\n\nThat\'s why I\'m distinctly at unease with Henessey\'s position on the issue. It basically amounts to hoping that the White Knight of Technology will save us from any serious costs on the climate issue by throwing some amount of money at the problem, as if technological effectiveness responds in some type of direct linear relationship to the amount of R &amp;amp; D spending.\n\nI mean, take a look at what happened in the US auto sector in terms of oil consumption after the passage of CAFE laws in the 1970s. The overall efficiency of cars rose drastically, yet oil consumption still shot up, simply because people \&quot;ate the gains\&quot;, so to speak.\n\nIn any case, don\'t under-estimate even 1-2 degrees of warming in the overall global temperature. For one thing, that can translate into radically different temperature changes on the local level (since the poles are warming faster than most other areas, for example), and we just don\'t know enough about the climate and environmental impact that 1-2 degrees will bring (for example, the total difference in mean temperature between London now and London in the last Ice Age, when it was as cold as northern Alaska, amounts to about 5-6 degree Celsius change).'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Dave Smith</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-727</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-727</guid>
		<description>The best way to promote new technology is to place a price on carbon.  Ideally, the price should be low initially but be credibly projected to progressively increase over the timescale for technological change.

It is interesting how those who would normally favour market-driven technology development instead favour government sponsorship for low-carbon technology (at least, I think that this is what you are proposing).&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;727&#039;,&#039;Dave Smith&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;727&#039;,&#039;Dave Smith&#039;,&#039;The best way to promote new technology is to place a price on carbon.  Ideally, the price should be low initially but be credibly projected to progressively increase over the timescale for technological change.\n\nIt is interesting how those who would normally favour market-driven technology development instead favour government sponsorship for low-carbon technology (at least, I think that this is what you are proposing).&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best way to promote new technology is to place a price on carbon.  Ideally, the price should be low initially but be credibly projected to progressively increase over the timescale for technological change.</p>
<p>It is interesting how those who would normally favour market-driven technology development instead favour government sponsorship for low-carbon technology (at least, I think that this is what you are proposing).
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('727','Dave Smith'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('727','Dave Smith','The best way to promote new technology is to place a price on carbon.  Ideally, the price should be low initially but be credibly projected to progressively increase over the timescale for technological change.\n\nIt is interesting how those who would normally favour market-driven technology development instead favour government sponsorship for low-carbon technology (at least, I think that this is what you are proposing).'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Doing Nothing and Waiting for Never &#171; The Canopy</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-726</link>
		<dc:creator>Doing Nothing and Waiting for Never &#171; The Canopy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-726</guid>
		<description>[...] was a principled case for doing nothing with respect to climate change and linked to a thoughtful post from Keith Hennessey that explained this position. Essentially the argument for doing nothing goes [...]&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;726&#039;,&#039;Doing Nothing and Waiting for Never &laquo; The Canopy&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;726&#039;,&#039;Doing Nothing and Waiting for Never &laquo; The Canopy&#039;,&#039;&#91;...&#93; was a principled case for doing nothing with respect to climate change and linked to a thoughtful post from Keith Hennessey that explained this position. Essentially the argument for doing nothing goes &#91;...&#93;&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] was a principled case for doing nothing with respect to climate change and linked to a thoughtful post from Keith Hennessey that explained this position. Essentially the argument for doing nothing goes [...]
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('726','Doing Nothing and Waiting for Never &amp;laquo; The Canopy'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('726','Doing Nothing and Waiting for Never &amp;laquo; The Canopy','&amp;#91;...&amp;#93; was a principled case for doing nothing with respect to climate change and linked to a thoughtful post from Keith Hennessey that explained this position. Essentially the argument for doing nothing goes &amp;#91;...&amp;#93;'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: WJ</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-725</link>
		<dc:creator>WJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:38:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-725</guid>
		<description>Apologies if this post comes across as too cyncial, but I basically agree with RedSt8er in post #4.

It all comes down to increasing political power in the hands of the State.  Paul Krugman and his ilk would be in favor of almost any program, tax, or whatever that increased their political power over people&#039;s lives.

You all look at the man-made global warming question on its own merits and try and decide on the costs and benefits based on magnitude of temperature changes.  People on the Left see the benefits of imposing control over energy not in terms of trying to reduce global temperatures by 2/10 of a degree, but in the benefit of power.  No cost is too large for the benefit of control.

Just ask yourself this on any man-made global warming proposal that comes out, does it increase or decrease the citizen&#039;s freedom?&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;725&#039;,&#039;WJ&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;725&#039;,&#039;WJ&#039;,&#039;Apologies if this post comes across as too cyncial, but I basically agree with RedSt8er in post #4.\n\nIt all comes down to increasing political power in the hands of the State.  Paul Krugman and his ilk would be in favor of almost any program, tax, or whatever that increased their political power over people\&#039;s lives.\n\nYou all look at the man-made global warming question on its own merits and try and decide on the costs and benefits based on magnitude of temperature changes.  People on the Left see the benefits of imposing control over energy not in terms of trying to reduce global temperatures by 2\/10 of a degree, but in the benefit of power.  No cost is too large for the benefit of control.\n\nJust ask yourself this on any man-made global warming proposal that comes out, does it increase or decrease the citizen\&#039;s freedom?&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies if this post comes across as too cyncial, but I basically agree with RedSt8er in post #4.</p>
<p>It all comes down to increasing political power in the hands of the State.  Paul Krugman and his ilk would be in favor of almost any program, tax, or whatever that increased their political power over people&#8217;s lives.</p>
<p>You all look at the man-made global warming question on its own merits and try and decide on the costs and benefits based on magnitude of temperature changes.  People on the Left see the benefits of imposing control over energy not in terms of trying to reduce global temperatures by 2/10 of a degree, but in the benefit of power.  No cost is too large for the benefit of control.</p>
<p>Just ask yourself this on any man-made global warming proposal that comes out, does it increase or decrease the citizen&#8217;s freedom?
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('725','WJ'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('725','WJ','Apologies if this post comes across as too cyncial, but I basically agree with RedSt8er in post #4.\n\nIt all comes down to increasing political power in the hands of the State.  Paul Krugman and his ilk would be in favor of almost any program, tax, or whatever that increased their political power over people\'s lives.\n\nYou all look at the man-made global warming question on its own merits and try and decide on the costs and benefits based on magnitude of temperature changes.  People on the Left see the benefits of imposing control over energy not in terms of trying to reduce global temperatures by 2\/10 of a degree, but in the benefit of power.  No cost is too large for the benefit of control.\n\nJust ask yourself this on any man-made global warming proposal that comes out, does it increase or decrease the citizen\'s freedom?'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Kenneth A. Regas</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-2/#comment-722</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth A. Regas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 17:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-722</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If we knew with certainty that Earth would warm 10 degrees over the next 20-30 years, I would be screaming for an immediate big carbon tax. &lt;/i&gt;

Is the phrase &quot;in comparison to if nothing is done,&quot; (to appear after the first comma)implied?

&lt;i&gt;I instead recommend they focus on pushing carbon-reducing technology R&amp;D&lt;/i&gt;

In public policy discussions, R&amp;D spending tends to be treated as a kind of panacea. Invoke the magic letters and all heads nod sagely, &quot;More R&amp;D, yes more R&amp;D. That&#039;s the ticket.&quot;  This response does not recognize that (1) you can&#039;t predict what new insights will arise from Research and (2) you can only Develop a new insight if it arises from that research. Net yields from R&amp;D spending, &lt;i&gt;especially in the direction of a particular desired result&lt;/i&gt;, are often negative.

So proposals to spend on R&amp;D should be subjected to the same skepicism applied to political proposals. We ask why we believe that the Chinese government will do this or that in response to this tariff or that diplomatic initiative. We should also ask why we expect a significant positive net yield from R&amp;D spending.

Because greenhouse gas suppression is a relatively new field (in contrast to &quot;alternative energy&quot;) R&amp;D spending may indeed be well rewarded. But Nature&#039;s answer to results-oriented research is often that you can&#039;t get there from here. We should be careful to treat favorable R&amp;D outcomes as unexpected exogenous inputs, not as miracles the arrival of which appear in our program schedule - not that KBH did.

I am a mechanical engineer (BSME, MSME) with a background in R&amp;D.
Ken&lt;div class=&quot;comment-remix-meta&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;replyto&quot; onclick=&quot;replyto(&#039;722&#039;,&#039;Kenneth A. Regas&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Reply&lt;/a&gt;  - &lt;a href=&quot;#&quot; class=&quot;quote&quot; onclick=&quot;quote(&#039;722&#039;,&#039;Kenneth A. Regas&#039;,&#039;&lt;i&gt;If we knew with certainty that Earth would warm 10 degrees over the next 20-30 years, I would be screaming for an immediate big carbon tax. &lt;\/i&gt;\n\nIs the phrase \&quot;in comparison to if nothing is done,\&quot; (to appear after the first comma)implied?\n\n&lt;i&gt;I instead recommend they focus on pushing carbon-reducing technology R&amp;D&lt;\/i&gt;\n\nIn public policy discussions, R&amp;D spending tends to be treated as a kind of panacea. Invoke the magic letters and all heads nod sagely, \&quot;More R&amp;D, yes more R&amp;D. That\&#039;s the ticket.\&quot;  This response does not recognize that (1) you can\&#039;t predict what new insights will arise from Research and (2) you can only Develop a new insight if it arises from that research. Net yields from R&amp;D spending, &lt;i&gt;especially in the direction of a particular desired result&lt;\/i&gt;, are often negative.\n\nSo proposals to spend on R&amp;D should be subjected to the same skepicism applied to political proposals. We ask why we believe that the Chinese government will do this or that in response to this tariff or that diplomatic initiative. We should also ask why we expect a significant positive net yield from R&amp;D spending.\n\nBecause greenhouse gas suppression is a relatively new field (in contrast to \&quot;alternative energy\&quot;) R&amp;D spending may indeed be well rewarded. But Nature\&#039;s answer to results-oriented research is often that you can\&#039;t get there from here. We should be careful to treat favorable R&amp;D outcomes as unexpected exogenous inputs, not as miracles the arrival of which appear in our program schedule - not that KBH did.\n\nI am a mechanical engineer (BSME, MSME) with a background in R&amp;D.\nKen&#039;); return false;&quot;&gt;Quote&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/div&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If we knew with certainty that Earth would warm 10 degrees over the next 20-30 years, I would be screaming for an immediate big carbon tax. </i></p>
<p>Is the phrase &#8220;in comparison to if nothing is done,&#8221; (to appear after the first comma)implied?</p>
<p><i>I instead recommend they focus on pushing carbon-reducing technology R&amp;D</i></p>
<p>In public policy discussions, R&amp;D spending tends to be treated as a kind of panacea. Invoke the magic letters and all heads nod sagely, &#8220;More R&amp;D, yes more R&amp;D. That&#8217;s the ticket.&#8221;  This response does not recognize that (1) you can&#8217;t predict what new insights will arise from Research and (2) you can only Develop a new insight if it arises from that research. Net yields from R&amp;D spending, <i>especially in the direction of a particular desired result</i>, are often negative.</p>
<p>So proposals to spend on R&amp;D should be subjected to the same skepicism applied to political proposals. We ask why we believe that the Chinese government will do this or that in response to this tariff or that diplomatic initiative. We should also ask why we expect a significant positive net yield from R&amp;D spending.</p>
<p>Because greenhouse gas suppression is a relatively new field (in contrast to &#8220;alternative energy&#8221;) R&amp;D spending may indeed be well rewarded. But Nature&#8217;s answer to results-oriented research is often that you can&#8217;t get there from here. We should be careful to treat favorable R&amp;D outcomes as unexpected exogenous inputs, not as miracles the arrival of which appear in our program schedule &#8211; not that KBH did.</p>
<p>I am a mechanical engineer (BSME, MSME) with a background in R&amp;D.<br />
Ken
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('722','Kenneth A. Regas'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('722','Kenneth A. Regas','&lt;i&gt;If we knew with certainty that Earth would warm 10 degrees over the next 20-30 years, I would be screaming for an immediate big carbon tax. &lt;\/i&gt;\n\nIs the phrase \&quot;in comparison to if nothing is done,\&quot; (to appear after the first comma)implied?\n\n&lt;i&gt;I instead recommend they focus on pushing carbon-reducing technology R&amp;amp;D&lt;\/i&gt;\n\nIn public policy discussions, R&amp;amp;D spending tends to be treated as a kind of panacea. Invoke the magic letters and all heads nod sagely, \&quot;More R&amp;amp;D, yes more R&amp;amp;D. That\'s the ticket.\&quot;  This response does not recognize that (1) you can\'t predict what new insights will arise from Research and (2) you can only Develop a new insight if it arises from that research. Net yields from R&amp;amp;D spending, &lt;i&gt;especially in the direction of a particular desired result&lt;\/i&gt;, are often negative.\n\nSo proposals to spend on R&amp;amp;D should be subjected to the same skepicism applied to political proposals. We ask why we believe that the Chinese government will do this or that in response to this tariff or that diplomatic initiative. We should also ask why we expect a significant positive net yield from R&amp;amp;D spending.\n\nBecause greenhouse gas suppression is a relatively new field (in contrast to \&quot;alternative energy\&quot;) R&amp;amp;D spending may indeed be well rewarded. But Nature\'s answer to results-oriented research is often that you can\'t get there from here. We should be careful to treat favorable R&amp;amp;D outcomes as unexpected exogenous inputs, not as miracles the arrival of which appear in our program schedule - not that KBH did.\n\nI am a mechanical engineer (BSME, MSME) with a background in R&amp;amp;D.\nKen'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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		<title>By: Fat Man</title>
		<link>http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/comment-page-1/#comment-721</link>
		<dc:creator>Fat Man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 10:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://keithhennessey.com/2009/05/29/the-smoot-krugman-carbon-import-tariff/#comment-721</guid>
		<description></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Xie explained that his country will be more likely to act aggressively once the U.S. &#8230; agrees to help countries like China finance their transition to a clean energy economy.”&#8221;</p>
<p>The sarcastic voice in my head said that we will go out back and take the money for that from the money tree. We (the US) are broke, even BO agrees. The idea that Congress is going to tax Americans to send money to China is laughable.
<div class="comment-remix-meta"><a href="#" class="replyto" onclick="replyto('721','Fat Man'); return false;">Reply</a>  &#8211; <a href="#" class="quote" onclick="quote('721','Fat Man','\&quot;Xie explained that his country will be more likely to act aggressively once the U.S. ... agrees to help countries like China finance their transition to a clean energy economy.&acirc;\&quot;\n\nThe sarcastic voice in my head said that we will go out back and take the money for that from the money tree. We (the US) are broke, even BO agrees. The idea that Congress is going to tax Americans to send money to China is laughable.'); return false;">Quote</a></div>
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